Well, Fisk beats Holland on the enjoyment factor but I agree that Holland is above average. BTW, I was thinking lately that part of the enjoyment is that both Fisk and Holland read like novels (i.e. they are structured to be easy reading) -- there is a scenery, major characters introduced, then conflict and tension builds, then the action starts and culminates in a few massive battles and then there is a denouement where sort of good guys sort of win. --------- Hey, Holland says that from Persian's standpoint Athens was a terrorist state (it "sponsored" sea piracy against Persian interests) interesting perspective. Oh, for the Battle of Thermopylae, the three hundred Spartans brought a thousand helots to die with them defending their masters' freedom. Kinda casts a shade on the heroics there. Also, the Athenian women, if they are chaste, should not be seen outside the house. So that they don't interfere with the democratic process. On the upside, the state sponsored brothels ("whores for the people!").